Talk:Causes of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight

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You should include original documents from the Israeli Intelligence Service (Arab Section)[edit]

If you're going to document the expulsion of the Arabs from Mandatory Palestine, you really should consider including information from the Israeli Intelligence Service: https://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/1948.pdf] https://www.akevot.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1948ISReport-Eng.pdf

In reviewing the factors that affected migration, we list the factors that had a definitive effect on population migration. Other factors, localized and smaller scale, are listed in the special reviews of migration movement in each district. The factors, in order of importance, are: 1. Direct Jewish hostile actions against Arab communities. 2. Impact of our hostile actions against communities neighboring where migrants lived (here – particularly – the fall of large neighboring communities). 3. Actions taken by the Dissidents [Irgun, Lehi]. 4. Orders and directives issued by Arab institutions and gangs. 5. Jewish Whispering operations [psychological warfare] intended to drive Arabs to flee. 6. Evacuation ultimatums. 7. Fear of Jewish retaliation upon a major Arab attack on Jews. 8. The appearance of gangs and foreign fighters near the village. 9. Fear of an Arab invasion and its consequences (mostly near the borders). 10. Arab villages isolated within purely Jewish areas. 11. Various local factors and general fear of what was to come. 2600:1700:EB40:4530:F9E1:6072:E3A8:499A (talk) 04:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is present in the "Opening of archives" section and now includes a link to the document. Zero^talk 06:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should this article include plans to poison wells?[edit]

Apparently there were plans to use biological/chemical warfare against the native Palestinians, in part to make Palestinian villages unlivable. They, (Haganah I assume) called it operation "Cast thy Bread" apparently. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-10-14/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/documents-confirm-israelis-poisoned-arab-wells-in-1948/00000183-d2b2-d8cc-afc7-fefed64d0000 Fanccr (talk) 03:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably, and the development of those biological weapons by Zionist universities. DMH223344 (talk) 04:09, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Causes[edit]

I started a thread here at 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight regarding the statement that "the causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus are also a subject of fundamental disagreement among historians." This article says in its lead similarly that "The causes for this mass displacement is a matter of great controversy among historians, journalists, and commentators."

To the best of my knowledge there is only debate over the details of these expulsions and flights and not "fundamental disagreement". See for example this article by Ilan Pappé. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:11, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is correct. The disagreement is primarily about whether there was a policy of comprehensive expulsions. Of course, most relevant records are still classified. DMH223344 (talk) 04:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong year[edit]

In "Master Plan" explanation > Planning by Ben-Gurion:

"... a group of eleven people, ... At a meeting on 10 March 1947, this group put the final touches on Plan Dalet ..."

I suspect that the correct date is 10 March 1948. What Google shows me of the cited source by Pappé lacks page numbers but includes this text:

"10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches to a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine."

The passages seem to refer to the same meeting, and the context makes more sense if the year was 1948. Johntobey (talk) 23:02, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, done. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 02:26, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 June 2024[edit]

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The heavy use of the word Zionist or Zionism is unnecessary. Jewish and Israeli forces clashed with Arab and Palestinian forces, By using the word Zionist you are skewing the article because of the strong opinions right or wrong of Zionists and Zionism. 50.170.171.146 (talk) 20:36, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done - this is too vague of an edit request to be actionable. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:40, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the first section on inaccurate historiography?[edit]

The discussion on inaccurate historiography should not be the first section since it is not core to the topic. Also, the discussion gives the traditionalist Israeli mythology way too much credit. DMH223344 (talk) 04:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article should be rewritten as the "Historiography of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion". IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 04:25, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great point. The title is ridiculous in my opinion; what could be the cause of expulsion other than...... expulsion? DMH223344 (talk) 04:40, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In keeping with WP:LEDE, I think the previous lede text was a better summary of the body. I think "flight" here means departure that was not directly forced, and much of the article is about different views on the main drivers of that flight. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 05:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the lede and the body don't match, is that always the fault of the lede? This article needs a lot of work, but the lead should say that "Most historians today agree that forceful expulsion was the primary driver of flight." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 06:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from flight, I think it's also coherent to talk about causes of expulsion, as the discussion of Plan Dalet and other Zionist planning or decision making. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 05:46, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]