- Connecteam (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
I didn't particularly want to bring this here, since procedurally the close is sound. The AFD was left listed for the full 168 hours (and 9 minutes), and I'm sure, were I inclined to speculate, I could come up with a way a reasonable admin closer could have closed the discussion the same way. There were some last minute comments, but not being a stale discussion ordinarily would certainly not be grounds for an overturn or relist. My mistake for not nomming it on a weekend.
That said, I believe the discussion I had with the closer patently does not meet the standards set out by WP:ADMINACCT, which non-administrator closers are also expected to adhere to. I won't tell you more than that I followed the rules and used the arguments raised in the discussion. is clearly not in any way, shape or form a justification, in my admittedly biased opinion. Additionally, while it is not the role of the closer (nor this review) to remedy a defective discussion, I believe (again, admitting my strong bias) any administrator exercising reasonable judgement would at least note the fact that a self-published book, as added by 扱. し. 侍. would not be considered a reliable source, and state whether they relied on that accordingly, if not instead relisted or left their own comment. That one of the others added a source that prominently displayed "Marketing Content" (תוכן שיווקי) at the top near the byline, is perhaps beyond the scope of a reasonable closer, applying an ordinary degree of scrutiny.
In my opinion, at minimum, even if the result is endorsed, this should be re-closed by an uninvolved administrator in their individual capacity, and the closer advised not to do so in future. I am instead seeking a relist, or leave for an immediate renomination. Alpha3031 (t • c) 11:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Here we are. My closure was not based on the book or the Marker source, as the nominator might think, but on a deep coverage provided by other reliable sources (including VentureBeat, Forbes staff, Globes, etc.) which were added during the discussion. I don't see a big issue in closing the discussion by the administrator as the nominator is biased and for some reason always mentions the weakest sources on the page. WP:BEFORE is a good rule and it must be followed. Not long ago, I nominated a page without a thorough review of sources and I was ashamed by the community. So, I was super attentive and skeptical in evaluating the sources of the page. BoraVoro (talk) 13:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- removed from the page the self-published book and the Marker paid placement source (I didn't count on them while closing the discussion anyway). BoraVoro (talk) 13:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- You are not required to analyse the sources, as the closer. You are, however, required to furnish an explanation of your process, as requested, and as you have done so now. Alpha3031 (t • c) 13:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I see your point. As I mentioned before, I followed the discussion and based my decision on it. The arguments seemed valid, but I did look at and analyze the sources to determine if they are reliable, though I was not required to do so. BoraVoro (talk) 14:50, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- That's fine. I'm happy to withdraw at this point, and have this closed per Owen's suggestion, provided you take to heart the feedback provided (which it appears you have) I think the explanation you provided here is meets the required standard, and if you chose to close XfDs again after a bit more experience, would be the type of thing we would look for, with a bit more back and forth to hash out the details, for example, on the appropriate level of scrutiny. Alpha3031 (t • c) 15:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Alpha3031 thank you so much! I completely agree with you and please accept my apologies for my unprofessional response on my talk page. BoraVoro (talk) 05:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Allow early renomination. The Keep !votes carry very little weight, which isn't surprising, seeing as they come from inexperienced users. One Keep was made by an account now used primarily for voting on AfDs, with a grand total of 52 edits to their name. The lone "per nom if not A7" Delete was also weak. A competent admin could have discarded all but the nom, and relisted to get more meaningful participation. As it stands, this is essentially little more than a contested PROD. Both the closing rationale and the closer's response above reads very much like a supervote. The closer's job is to weigh consensus among legitimate participants, not carry out their own source analysis.
- Conduct aside, I can't fault the NAC for being duped by what superficially appears to be a clear consensus, so I don't think an outright overturn is called for. I also don't want to relist the same AfD, already tainted by weak !votes. A fresh AfD in a month, closed by an admin (or by an experienced, competent NAC, if applicable), is the way to go here. BoraVoro would be well advised to stay away from closing XfDs until they gain more experience, and perhaps just as importantly, learn how to interact with fellow editors. This type of dismissive tone in response to a legitimate query is incompatible with administrative actions. Owen× ☎ 13:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @OwenX thanks! BoraVoro (talk) 13:18, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Allow early/speedy renomination per OwenX. Relisting this is not going to give the best chance of achieving consensus so a new nomination in a few weeks would absolutely be a better choice, to start afresh so to speak. I also agree with Owen's comments that it was an inappropriate response to the talk page query about XfD by the closer, and support his advice regarding the closer staying away from XfD closes for a while. (While DRV is not a conduct forum, the nature of a response by a closer on a talk page is something that definitely falls within its purview.) Daniel (talk) 22:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for your feedback. I have already admitted and apologized for my inappropriate response on my talk page. I hope my actions won't disrupt the Wikipedia community and guidelines anymore, and I will stay away from XfD for a while. It was a good lesson for me. BoraVoro (talk) 05:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Allow early renomination. This looks like a UPE spam infested AFD. The article itself has hallmarks of UPE and the keep voters have similarities in behavior too. The same happened at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Whiteshield with basically the same users. I ended up blocking the users concerned as UPE sock/meatpuppets. MER-C 17:31, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Apologies I renominated this before noticing this DRV! Please feel free to close and bash me over the head with a wet sponge. HighKing++ 15:46, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Y Done, although since you alerted us before anyone noticed, I'll skip the requested TROUTing. :) Owen× ☎ 16:02, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Early/Speedy renomination candidate. As part of the AfD I'd looked at the sourcing, in case I miss it next time at AfD, I hope the following will be able to assist or be helpful.
notes on sourcing in article
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This is a breakdown of the sourcing in the article. Note, this is a company therefore GNG/WP:NCORP requires at least two deep or significant sources with each source containing "Independent Content" showing in-depth information *on the company*. Not reviews of a product. "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. In other words and in plain English, this means that references that rely *only* on information provided by the company - such as articles that rely entirely on quotations, press releases, announcements, interviews, website information, etc - even when slightly modified, fail the criteria.
- There are 25 references in the article which can be broken up into 4 categories as follows:
- Interviews/quotations with sources connected to the topic company or "profiles" that repeat/regurgitate information with zero independent content. This from Globes and this from Globes are "puff" profiles that rely entirely on interviews with the founder and execs. This is another profile this time in a "Top 50" list, also relying entirely on repeating company-provided information.
- Announcments that rely entirely on information provided by the company/execs. This from Calcalistech, this from Venturebeat, this from Unleash, this from Techcrunch, this from Jerusalem Post and this from Globes were all published either on the same date, 2 March 2022, or within a few days after and all rely entirely on a funding announcement (either by the company or by one of their investors) and regurgitate the exact same comments/info from the company about their $120m funding round. This from Forbes, this from calcalistech, this from Globes were all published on 28 April 2021 or within a couple of days after concerning an earlier funding round and also fail for the same reasons as the other funding announcement-related references above. This from calcalist is an early article from 2016 and is based entirely on a company announcement and comments from the founder and an early investor. None of these article contain an "Independent Content" as per WP:ORGIND and fail WP:NCORP criteria.
- Self Published material. This from walla relies entirely on a survey by the topic company and has no independent content, fails WP:ORGIND and WP:CORPDEPTH. This is the pricing page from the topic company's website, fails ORGIND and CORPDEPTH.
- Review of a product. The topic is the company and we first need to establish notability of the company. Once that has been established, no problem including details about their product(s). But reviews like this in Business.com, USA news, Techradar, timeero, usnews, jibble.io, peoplemanagingpeople, Forbes, and fitsmallbusiness are of no use for establishing in-depth Independent Content about the company, which they don't.
- None of the references in the article meet GNG/NCORP criteria for establishing notability.
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- Allow early or speedy renomination due to high presence of covert advertising at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Connecteam, where nearly all keep votes failed to provide policy-based rationale and are all blocked for sock/meatpuppetry, likely UPE, or spam/advertising. Agreed with source analysis above - the sources given don't meet WP:GNG or WP:NCORP. jellyfish ✉ 18:36, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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